ATK building world's largest space telescope in Magna

You can’t explain why or how the Universe always existed and I can’t explain how or why God always existed, we both can agree we are complex creatures. My experience is that complex things don’t happen by chance. Thousands of scientists in thousands of labs for hundreds of years across the world with the most sophisticated equipment and the smartest minds have not been able to create even the simplest life form from inanimate elements in any lab environment. That doesn’t bode well for life arising spontaneously. You could repeat the mantra “Some day, some day, some day. Man will create life” or you could ponder the possibility that if we can’t do it then the odds are that life didn’t come about by chance and that maybe the purpose of our life is to seek out who created us and why. Final thoughts. you have mentioned the Google ranking several times as a point that it’s popularity may indicated it’s common sense appeal. I’m not sure how Google ranks things but I know Amazon does by sales. The best selling tile is #1. Human Reality--Who We Are and Why We Exist is ranked # 1,677,859. Not exactly flying off the shelves. I think in the end I probably didn’t change your mind and you didn’t change mine. Guess Paul Simon was right. "All lies and jest Still, a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest". – The Boxer

Thanks, JohnSmith, but had you actually "read the part of the book that dealt with how the Universe was created," you would have noticed that ch. 2, sec. 5 is entitled the exact opposite; i.e,, "THE UNIVERSE HAVING ALWAYS EXISTED MAKES SENSE" and thus it was never "created" at all. But since mortal humans are always facing death after being born, we have a difficult time understanding an eternal reality, or simply, one without beginning or end, such as the "Universe having always existed" in this instance, which makes perfect sense to the average reader. Yet, even that is but a tiny fraction of what the book discusses, as indicated by it's comprehensive title, "Human Reality--Who We Are and Why We Exist!" But if you ever decide to read it cover-to-cover sometime, or perhaps even two or three times for that matter, then we might have a more meaningful discussion on a whole host of topics it addresses, which might also be why it has remained in the top position on Google for searches under "human reality" for the last 3+ years. And since you "vote for an intelligent God," you might want to discuss it with him the next time you see him in the mirror. You can easily PROVE that by simply pinching yourself to be sure you actually exist. :) Just remember, it's always the "accepted norms" that keep us from our true reality and the only debate that will ever occur regarding true reality is when it encounters the false notions of "currently accepted" reality, as the HR book explains with logical simplicity, among many other things an open mind has long sought to understand. For wisdom should never be measured by how complicated it is; in other words, it shouldn't tax the "grey matter" between our ears. :) As for myself, I couldn't wait to read what the next page of the HR book contained as I turned each one. And judging from the number of times it has been downloaded for free across the world, I'm far from the only one who felt that way. It was meant for everyone.:)

I read the part of the book that dealt with how the Universe was created. Basically it opted for the idea that matter always existed rather then the idea that God always existed and created space time and matter. I call this the “lottery” theory of creation. When one wins the lottery he doesn't spend time thinking about ‘who created the lottery system’ , or ‘how does the lottery system works’ he spends time on thinking about ‘what am I going to do with my winnings to make me happy”. Matter, like the lottery board, doesn't deserve thought or consideration. You won, doesn't matter how, now on to the topic of ME, ME , ME! Nothing in the book made a scientific or rational case for matter always existing; it just made the assumption that since we see matter now it must have always existed. I’ll say this; it’s the only other choice. You either believe that an intelligent being, outside of the space–time continuum, created the Universe we know or that unintelligent matter, that always existed, has properties that allow it to evolve from lifeless elements to living understanding consciousness. I vote for an intelligent God.

Dennis, I will read the book you recommend. BTW I found the link, (http://marvelousworkandawonder.com/HRBook3D/pageflip.html ) in case others are interested. Before reading the book (maybe it will change my mind) I will say that I find it puzzling that you believe in dark matter that is invisible but you say “personally, have no faith whatsoever in some invisible man who supposedly exists outside of myself”. So I ask, what’s more logical, believing in an invisible, highly intelligent being, “outside of myself”, that has always existed who reveled through earthly beings HE created life for a purpose or believing that invisible dark matter. “outside of myself”, that never claimed to create the Universe always existed, mixed with luck (chance) and shaken with years, (lots) created a complex Universe that is expanding to infinity will somehow repeat the performance (or not)?

Simply Google the words "Human Reality" and click the first link, which bears the full title. It has nothing to do with "faith" but the majority who have read it most often say that it appeals to their common sense. There's a reason why it has remained in the number one position on Google since within two weeks after it was first published in November 2009, but perhaps only those who were looking for truth understand that reason after they've read it. Those who believe they already know the truth will never bother or they would have already found it by now. I can only speak for myself, of course, but that's exactly the reason why I found it shortly after it was made available on the Internet, for free. But is it the truth, you ask? I suppose everyone who has read it has determined that for themselves, based on their common sense. But because real truth embodies all things as they are, as they were, and as they always will be, no one can take credit for its authorship. Real truth just is! But as to your suspicion that "it will offer a feel good, non-judgmental view of life," perhaps one reader said it best when he wrote after reading it: "Every scientist, physicist, philosopher, and religionist will now have to revisit their many beliefs and theories and scramble to revise those that are now turned upside down because of this publication." Frankly, I rather enjoyed having my life's experiences and beliefs of more than seven decades turned completely upside down by that book's contents, which touch every aspect of human life. Einstein once said, "I have deep faith that the principles of the universe will be both beautiful and simple." Too bad he didn't live to read HUMAN REALITY--Who We Are and Why We Exist! or he would have discovered how beautiful and simple they really are. Perhaps Rene Descartes summed it up best: "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." :)

Faith is a belief in something you can’t prove, not just a belief in “some invisible man who supposedly exists outside of myself”. Make no mistake; you are a man of great, great faith. For a more accurate understanding of Luke 17:21 I recommend this link: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/bible.show/sVerseID/25673/eVerseID/25673 I could not find the free Google book link. If you have it post it. ll try to read your suggested book but I suspect it will offer a feel good, non judgmental view of life. I will probably be enticed by it and would really love it to be the truth…. But is it?

JohnSmith: From my last post I believe it was our Christ whom Luke 17:21 quoted, so the only "God" I believe in is the one I see when I look in the mirror. And since Jesus was pretty smart I tend to believe him. If you believe otherwise, then far be it from me to tell you what to believe. So granted, you definitely win in the "faith" category, but you do err in assuming "we are both men of faith" "in common" because I, personally, have no faith whatsoever in some invisible man who supposedly exists outside of myself, as Luke 17:21 seems to make clear. Therefore, on that point, you be right and I'll be happy, how's that? :) But having said that, one thing we do have in common is our humanity as mortal human beings, equal with every other human being on earth, notwithstanding our individual circumstances may vary greatly. Is a starving child in Africa, or a woman who is forced to prostitute herself in order to feed her children any less human than than those who rule in riches? Your common sense provides the answer. So I'll leave you with a quote from the introduction of one of my favorite books: "This book will give the direct sensible answers to all of life's most difficult questions. Those responsible for this book will never pollute the sanctity of the reader's own kingdom. They will always respect the 'king or queen who sets upon the throne.' They are knocking at your gate. They will go away if you do not want to be bothered. But they will leave this book outside the gates and walls of your kingdom, hoping, for your own sake, that you might one day open the gate just enough to grab the book and pull it back into your kingdom -- the kingdom that is built within you. In the solitude and security of your own world, engaging the power of your mind, you are now presented with the opportunity to read a book that will finally help you understand HUMAN REALITY--Who We Are and Why We Exist!" You can Google and read its 587 pages free, if desired. Good luck.

Dennis, from your last post I can see you want to be your own god so you don’t have to answer to one. You want to believe galaxies are created from DARK MATTER instead of God because that would mean you owe nothing to a higher being. You believe scientists are sloppy because they are not giving you the answers you want to hear. You and I have one thing in common; we are both men of faith. I believe in a God that created the Universe but I can’t prove it scientifically. You believe that the Universe is created by DARK MATTER but you can’t prove that scientifically. I believe that God created life. You believe that some day man will create reproducing life completely from non-living material proving that no God is necessary. I believe God always existed. You believe matter always existed. Neither of us can prove our beliefs scientifically but boy don’t we both have faith!

Thanks, JohnSmith. I took your "hint" to mean "God" so I looked in the Bible. But my computer can't find where God created a "big bang" (because the Universe has ALWAYS existed). But it did find that "God" said (in all caps, no less), "I AM THAT I AM" (Exodus 3:14). And it also found where our Christ said, "...for behold, the kingdom of God is within YOU" (Luke 17:21). So if that is true, we can safely conclude that we are our OWN god, since there's nobody other than ourselves and thus "I am that I am." But one thing current scientists have gotten right is the Universe seems to be expanding (and to a scientific mind, this gives credence to the theory that it is expanding away from the point of the "big bang"). As new galaxies with solar and planetary systems are created in the endless DARK MATTER of space, where none were found before, it would APPEAR as if the Universe is continually expanding. It also APPEARS, from our earthly vantage point, that some galaxies are colliding with others. However, it is the "vantage point" from which we make our observations that creates the false perceptions of what is actually going on in the Universe. It isn't hard to comprehend a Universe that has no boundaries, or limitations of space, and which appears to expand as new galaxies and solar systems are created. The outside Universe, apart from this earth, would not exist if we could not observe matter from our "vantage point." If there were no lights in outer space, then it would appear that nothing else exists "out there" except for us. Science has been very sloppy in proposing theories of truth that are based on its limited observational vantage point, especially when we consider it has only been a relatively very short time period in which humans have been observing the expanse of space and speculating on what all those lights actually are. It has always been this way and will continually be this way forever. It is what we can call "Universal Infinite."

Dennis comment-“the idea that the Universe has always been, and that the organization of matter into new living and non-living substances is and always has been going on, makes perfect sense.” My comment-It would make perfect sense except for the evidence. According to scientists the Universe is not a static environment nor is it one that will regroup and “bang” again. The Universe is expanding at an increasing rate and galaxies are moving away from each other. In 100+ billion years the galaxies will be so far apart they won’t even be able to see each other. Not a good environment for any kind of “circle of life” Dennis comment-“ “In other words, if a big bang created all the elements of the Universe, then what created the "bang"? “ My comment- – I’ll give you a hint. It begins with a “G” and ends with a “d”.